Paid Resource Should Fade Away

Discussion in 'Community Feedback and Suggestions' started by connection_lost, May 6, 2015.

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  1. Before I start, take a look at Skyrim V mods on Steam:
    Link 1: Introducing New Ways to Support Workshop Creators
    Link 2: Removing Payment Feature From Skyrim Workshop
    and think about why.

    Paid resources really bothered me for a long time. To clarify that I am not poor, and I am able to afford a plugin, please do not judge this with money, because that is not what I want to argue about. We are not gonna argue about Spigot v Bukkit either.
    "To buy it or not you decide" is not my point, and maybe you should not simply say that too here. We are not talking about anything related to money or market today.

    Paid resources did not dramatically increase the overall quality of plugins
    It is clear that most paid plugins are utilities, minigames or tweakable kit pvps. However there is rarely a plugin that is having its own uniqueness or making a community-changing improvement, such as WorldEdit, DisguiseCraft or MCMMOs and such.
    To be serious, I write a minigame every week. I consider all of them may meet the quality of other

    Very Low-quality Plugins Everywhere
    Examples: [1] [2] [3] [4]
    It ruined the overall quality of plugins, especially those are having a "premium" tag. Someone who is looking for the plugin may find simple plugin over-priced, or else "decent" (because they cannot judge) plugins should be at that price.

    Unskilled/Lazy Premium Resource Developers Exists
    I thought premium resource should make a developer to put more effort or having better support right? Well that usually is, but not always. I've been watching this thread for a long time. However that person do not know how-to reflection, thus not supporting 1.8 clients after 1.8.3 came out. Instead he asked the user to update to 1.8.3. Seriously it only take less than 20 minutes to fix, even you start learning NMS from the beginning.

    More Premium Resource May Prevent Indies
    The cost of running a server may increase, and maybe later, more essentials plugins will be paid, and those old free ones may be buried or not very functioning.

    Non Hackish-Newbie-Friendly Plugin Development Environment
    "Decompiling plugin and learn from it" could be a nice way for new developers to take a closer look to hackish methods in the API, therefore come up with better and greater ideas. I personally did that and really got some interesting findings. However, if someone has a great finding, he may now make it a plugin, then make it paid.

    Unfriendly Helping Community Will Rise
    If someone want to hide their findings, they can. They will just make profit from it. Just as I said in the previous section, a developer can make his finding a secret, by releasing a paid plugin. If anyone else running in a similar issue, there will just be ignorant.

    Distorted Community After All
    Alright, let's look at people's mental states while running a server. If a server is equipped with more paid resources, is it more likely to be a moneybag commercial server? People will feel like this community is more commercialized, since the basics will even ask you for money.
    (Breaking the EULA happens all the time, so disregard this for now.)

    We Might Be the Last Generation of Developers
    In three years, I will definitely be done with everything about Minecraft, ending my path as a Bukkit developer after seven years. I could remember the old days, when people sometimes share their findings, and most likely to answer others' questions. I was able to gather enough materials to learn in-depth stuff about this API, a good example should be NMS, furthermore ProtocolLib. I liked how people usually share their findings, maybe no-paid resource becomes a restriction in the past. But whatever those experience I got made me thrilled with hope in future plugin developing. It should be encouraged for developers to help others. As secrets being kept, ignorance increases, what may happen next? Look ahead.

    +EDIT 1: We Are Attracting ****Bags
    Promise me try not to laugh, or be emotional...
    Read this post:
    Well he must be taking this matter into extreme.

    It is just a game, do not take it so serious. But do not make it rot.

    My English is bad, feel free to laugh at me.
    This thread is a super map cannon, criticizing is welcomed. And this will be my last thread to talk about such a topic.
    #1 connection_lost, May 6, 2015
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 18
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    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  2. Sale of seeds and drinks in front of the position!
  3. This community is a different beast. Not many people here are in the minecraft community for the gameplay - they're in it for their server. That often, but not always, translates into being in it for the money.

    People have offered their development skills as paid services for years in the minecraft server community. I haven't ever seen developers offer their services to make a mod for a game like skyrim.

    Does enabling paid resources enhance the community? No.
    Was it meant to? No.
    Is it doing a decent job at what it was intended for? Yes.

    People can sell their work to people who will likely make back the amount they spent - that's perfectly fine in my opinion.
    Very few people playing skyrim make money playing skyrim.

    Lastly; Paid mods on steam was implemented about as poorly as they could be. The people who where supposed to moderate it did fuck nothing, valve took a 75% cut (while that in itself is fine as creators are very aware of it, it's pretty cheap).
    If someone sells your plugin on spigot without permission, you can have it taken down in a matter of days, if even that.

    Just my 2c.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  4. jflory7

    jflory7 Retired Moderator
    Retired Benefactor

    This is an interesting discussion topic, and I can relate to a lot of what you're saying as well. From my perspective as a server owner and a community member, I have always been a fan of FOSS (free, open-source software) and I think part of the magic with FOSS is the sense of community that it inspires and creates as a result. The greatest example of this being Spigot, as Spigot is FOSS and it has a community of 40,000 people strong (and growing every day).

    However, I believe premium resources are not inherently evil or unnecessary.

    Plugins are an aspect or a part of the global Spigot community. Even two years ago, when essentially every plugin was free, plugins were not written on a standard that made them impressive or well-written. Some were, but most were not. Skip to today, and not a whole lot has changed. However, it is easy to see how some premium resources shine above others, as can be attributed to the reviews and download counts of a given resource. The introduction of premium resources was not and is not a way to improve the community, but rather, a long overdue gift to developers who have been writing plugins for years at little to no profit on their end. Donations are far and few in-between for even the biggest plugins, and to make the statement that this is the way it should be is grossly unfair to the developers, particularly some of the larger projects who only have $40 to their name for even up to two years of programming.

    You can think about it this way. There are good and bad Minecraft servers. The good ones are well-managed, run by someone who knows what they are doing, and they are serious about their community and providing a good time for their players. They usually will sell some sort of digital good that is fair and balanced one way or another to those who can afford it. On the other hand, there are bad Minecraft servers, often run by small children or immature adults who are either not serious about what they are doing, cannot manage money effectively, or they are running their server for the sole intention of making money, not just building a community of players. They often sell goods, sometimes balanced, sometimes not, that may or may not actually go towards the funding of the server.

    Resources are a similar sort of thing. There are going to be good and bad ones. But I think this is something long overdue for developers, as I do agree that it isn't "fair" that the only way to turn a decent profit in the Minecraft server community was by actually running a server itself, as compared to writing the code that a server would use.

    To my original topic about FOSS, I don't think premium resources is "killing" FOSS in Minecraft. I love FOSS and I am a full supporter of those kinds of projects, but I do not believe that premium resources are a detrimental loss to the FOSS community that already exists.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. JamesJ


    I agree; I feel as if this community is becoming too money orientated- and forgetting about the actual game.
    I've seen 4+ threads titled 'How to make more money?' And resources that are ridiculously priced; e.g $25 for a premium plugin when there are 2+ working, free versions.

    All I see is members joining this community- and wanting to post premium resources. I don't have a premium resource, probably never will. It's against my morals to take money from this site and never give a penny back.
    I have only seen ~3 premium resource sellers put money back into Spigot by donating back.

    Also- if we're not allowed to sell pre-made builds, why are we allowed to premium resources? They're both premade, they're both needed by servers.
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  6. jflory7

    jflory7 Retired Moderator
    Retired Benefactor

    One is easier to review than the other, in regards to claims and disputes.
  7. I'd rather stop this here, there's been too much threads about premade builds
  8. JamesJ


    I'm not saying we should introduce payed builds, I think if you're paying for a paid plugin/build- you should have it done through S&R.
    I personally think paid resources have created more trouble than they're worth, spigotleaks, LeakForums, all the threads about "how to stop piracy of my plugin". It annoys the shit out of me. People know all of this happens, and it can't be stopped- yet they post a premium resource. Are they retarded?

    If you've got money for a paid plugin, why not get it 100% custom, something that someone else won't be able to have? I certainly would.
    In the time that Premium resources have been available, over 700 premium resources have been made (744 as of 12:27 GMT)- that's more BungeeCord Proxy plugins and BungeeCord - Bukkit plugins combined!

    TL;DR: I think we should get rid of premium resources, and stick to S&R.
  9. Piracy has been around since the start of the Internet, there is nothing we can do but mitigate it. Besides it hasn't stopped corporations from releasing games, software and applications.

    As for custom plugins, they cost roughly 4x-6x the normal premium plugin. Those who can't afford a perfectly custom plugins can purchase a quality plugin for a cheaper market value. Sure, there are some medicore premium plugins but once again the argument, "if you don't like it, don't buy it."

    Besides time changed, let us not conserve but progress. Change happens.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. I've also seen some seriously high quality premium plugins.
    Any of drtshock's resources, AntiAura, AnimatedMOTD(Despite being patched)
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. I thought this is why the EULA changed. I understand paying for a resource if its custom made for a specific server or purpose within that server. I don't see the point of paying for a general plugin on Spigot. Having said that there are some really good 'Premium' plugins out there like FeatherBoard. But on the other hand what's the point in make a plugin 0.99USD for something I could make myself or find an alternative. I say a tidy up is needed on the 'Premium' side and possibly remove the outdated/one's that can be found for free type ones but keeping the well made one's with a good reputation.
  12. To get a 100% custom plugin you need to add at least a 0 at the end of the price tag of the plugin, some mini-games are available for $10 on the premium resource market which is extremely cheap compared when you're hiring a developer. You're saving hundreds of dollars.
  13. So hard work should be free?

    I'll take a large fry and Mc Burger please!
  14. clip


    As a buyer (over 40 plugins purchased) and contributor to the premium resources section I see nothing wrong with premium plugins. It is a free market and if you don't like it, there is a filter so you can view free plugins only. No need to complain, simple as this: don't like it, don't buy.
    • Agree Agree x 10
  15. JamesJ


    Sorry, but I can't agree.
    Those people are selling a game, not an addon for a game.
  16. That doesn't really proved "Paid Resource" is a catalyst of "High-Quality Plugins"
  17. Who said it has to be? Why shouldn't I be allowed to sell bags of my own stuff for money if I wanted to?
    #17 frash23, May 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2015
  18. I already noted in the thread that "selling stuffz" is not what I am talking about today. We are talking about the consequences.
    #18 connection_lost, May 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2015
  19. Selling your work is freedom of speech. Not something we should be fiddling with.
  20. jflory7

    jflory7 Retired Moderator
    Retired Benefactor

    Selling an add-on that they themselves would use as a tool in order to make their own profit. *shrug*
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