Suggestion Regarding Prefixes (2 ideas)

Discussion in 'Community Feedback and Suggestions' started by MrWaffleman, May 14, 2016.

  1. First Idea:
    Some may view this idea as unneeded, but I could give some solutions and explain. In the Spigot Plugin Development section (or other sections that require help), the actual player who started the thread can change the prefix to Solved if they have gotten their answer. I think it would be much more organized if someone else could change the prefix to solved if the creator hasn't. I mean I don't want to introduce more ranks so that it could be efficient, or make the job of staff members harder, but there should be a solution to this, whether it's allowing experienced players to change the prefix or something else.

    Second Idea:
    This one is more organized than the first :p. I think there should be a Closed prefix to Hiring Developers, people tend to edit their title, but a prefix would be nice as well to be extra organized.
     
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  2. saphiria

    Artist

    I think the second idea would be a very nice addition.
     
  3. i like the ideas, but i think at least the first one needs more work, as there are pros and cons as to why someone else (either moderator or "experienced players") can edit the prefix.

    Pros: more threads would be marked as solved, making it easier to find answers doing searches.
    Cons: worse support.

    Now don't get this the wrong way, but there are plenty of support threads where i posted a solution, and never heard back from the OP, so i have no idea if it worked, he just abandoned the thread or whatever, should this be marked as solved ?

    another problem is related to the XY problem (http://xyproblem.info/) where someone post a solution for Y, but that didnt slove X for the OP, should this be marked as sloved, because the OP is only about the Y not the X ?
     
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  4. Who?
    Can you represent these people's arguments about why your idea may be unneeded?
    Can you refute those people's arguments?


    Why would "Spigot Plugin Development section (or other sections that require help)" be more organized if a certain group of people could add 'Solved' prefixes to threads?
    Do these forum sections need the organization?

    And what would qualify as an 'experienced player'?
    What would the cost of appointing 'experienced players' be?
    Is the cost reasonable for the task it is trying to solve?



    Not really.

    Why is editing the title to indicate "Closed" not sufficient?
    Would adding a "Closed prefix" be worth the cost of adding said prefix?

    Why would a "Closed prefix" be nice?
    How would a "Closed prefix" make the Hiring Developers section more organized?
     
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  5. I agree with @Saphiria, the second idea would be really nice to have.
     
  6. Some people, by that I mean the whole community of Spigot, and individuals may not like it, indicating that it's not a perfect idea, and will need some tweaking.

    My idea may be unneeded because of the whole "maintenance" that will be required in order to run my idea, and I'm not sure if the effort will output an equal amount of success by keeping the section organized.

    Refer to above.

    It would be organized considering so many people post needless replies on how to fix something even though the player has found a solution. Let me reword that, I guess some players cannot find a solution, like if they find something impossible or do not need it anymore. In which a more appropriate prefix would have to be applied such as "Finished" or something like that. Also the word will be very useful when googling questions, if you include the word "Solved" in your search query then a sufficient answer should pop up. Nowadays everything is googlable, well I just contradicted my own statement, about half the things I google do not show up, I mean sure you could say "well then learn it", but there are some tiny things I need in my code, and I don't fancy having to go over a half an hour course just to find that one bug-fix.

    These forum sections definitely need the organization to further help programmers have a collection of threads to their advantage. There are so many things that you cannot find in tutorials. People find the time to learn something solely with the process of trial and error. And once they find it they share it to the world, such has been the process of humanity, we shouldn't be stingy on that one. It provides a place where we can find successes and share them with others so that they may carry on, without having to make extensive tutorials on that specific topic.

    This I can agree on could be pretty vague, in which I could introduce a new concept, donors having access to change the prefixes in these sections. An experienced player in my opinion would be a player with a large amount of posts (preferable 1000+), that is recognized not to post farm, and has been in the spigot forums for quite the while.

    The cost would be that they can be prone to mistakes considering they are not moderators, and this is just a new concept, if such thing were to be introduced, rules would still have to be laid out.

    I think it is pretty reasonable, considering you only see around 1-3 mods online at a time, in a community where threads are posted almost once every 30 seconds - 1 minute. If this were to become a success, it would spark new ideas such as the helping-of-moderating of other sections and making the spigot community more friendly. Community Members are the ones who help players in need, so it really wouldn't make a difference in that concept.

    M8, I don't got all day to excercise my fingers, you gotta explain too :V.

    Prefixes appear to be more eye appealing considering they are colored, it also can clearly put the outline that this person does not want anymore developers, helps save time when people say "Is this still open?". There are not many Hiring Developer threads out there, so if a person clearly doesn't want anymore developing being done, someone can put the prefix up there. I guess that would be better than locking if people want to ask any questions or say something regarding to the person hiring.

    Do not understand the question that you're proposing.

    I've already stated why, it includes eye appealing material, and clears up confusion.

    This could apply to both ideas, but you can sort out prefixes, and it helps developers know which threads they can reply to and which are open.
     
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  7. saphiria

    Artist

    Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but you can then search by prefix. I could search, "Why am I getting XX" , with the "Solved" prefix, this would help a lot.
     
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  8. "But that [searching by tag/prefix] would be under the assumption that all solved problems have the Solved tag."

    The whole community of Spigot disagrees with you...? I don't disagree nor agree with your ideas here, I just want you to give proper details.
    Now I've contradicted your sentence.

    Note that "whole community of Spigot" is not really a verifiable source of information...

    So you could not refute "their" argument.

    You can edit things. So when you write "Let me reword that", please edit your original sentence instead of creating an entirely new one.

    Note that I actually understand your original sentence, but not the "reworded one". I cannot tell what you are trying to say by the way you've organized this.

    See above. I have no clue about what this sentence's point is because the sentence before it is confusing.

    Adding a "+ solved" into google would favour problems with the Solved tag. But that would be under the assumption that all solved problems have the Solved tag (or contain "solved").

    Your last sentence is confusing because it touches on two entirely different topics, one of which is contradictory (as you pointed out...).
    About the last topic in your confusing last sentence, see the "Know your Java" section in: https://www.spigotmc.org/threads/read-me-for-everyone-asking-questions-on-here.72946/


    And that's why plugin programmers need to learn Java before using the Bukkit/Spigot API. Do not look at the Spigot Plugin Development forum as a place where it is going to fix all of your programming problems, because that is not its job.


    Trial -and-error is an extremely dumb way to learn programming.
    You do not learn why a solution works, but all you figure out is that a solution works (which shows an incredible amount of ignorance to the problem you are trying to solve).


    Try to learn concurrent programming with trial-and-error. See how far that problem solving method gets you.

    ...From trial and error. What a joke. The amount of stupid solutions to a problem one would see would be insane. See above.

    Donors will be able to qualify as "experienced players"? Would that not contradict the definition of "experienced"?

    1. Managing the "experienced players"
    2. Finding enough volunteers willing to do the job correctly
    3. etc

    You never referred to any point you made in your above paragraph... This paragraph should be about proving that the costs you highlighted are "reasonable".

    Would this not mean having to appoint a lot of these volunteers? Which is a cost...?

    Why would all of these benefits come out of your idea?

    3 points in one sentence.

    That's a good point.

    *citation needed

    Why would a Hiring Developer thread have people asking questions if the person hiring is no longer hiring...?

    "Is the cost reasonable for the task it is trying to solve?"


    "But that [searching by tag/prefix] would be under the assumption that all solved problems have the Solved tag."

    Apply the same logic seen in the above sentence to this sentence.
     
  9. I don't want to turn this into a grammar point out on both sides, what I meant is that the individuals in the spigot community for clarification, I didn't even want to explain that much it's too off-topic, I don't take offense to what you're saying, and what you say is just constructed response to further fix this idea which I appreciate, so want to clear that up.

    I'm the one pioneering this idea, just a spark like I said to ultimately make Spigot a more organized place which is friendly to new developers and even experienced/intermediate developers who need help in minor problems, I'm keeping this equal by pointing out Pros and Cons of my idea, that was simply pointing out a con, whilst toppling that with pros so that you know that I'm not 100% biased, and I actually know what I'm doing.

    Another english mistake pointed out ._., I meant if you don't understand this first sentence, refer to second.

    I was referring to someone pointing out the XY problem, someone figures out the X but not the Y, meaning that the tag "Finished" or perhaps a synonym could be used so that one is not confused, and knows that both the X and the Y have been solved, or it has been entirely abandoned.

    Again, rewording... I meant that nowadays you google something that you need help on, you browse through 10 different pages, and most of them have threads that haven't been replied to for 4 months, and there's not even an answer, that's just one of the many scenarios, more scenarios include google searches that have nothing about what you're looking for. With the solved tag, simply saying "How to send nms PacketPlayOutBed whilst moving the bed" or something, would pop up something relatively like the question you want to ask that has been solved. Saving you time to look through docs which show you only half the thing you want to see, meaning you have to go everywhere looking for complete opposite things like cookie crumbs.

    I didn't mean Java, I solely meant Spigot/Bukkit, yes they're just a library that helps Minecraft Servers become more customizable and epic, but this API has been going on for many years and it's pretty complicated. There's a difference between knowing Java, and then figuring it out. Take neural networks for an example, do you go to Java and say "doNeuralNetwork()", no there's no method like that, you need to have knowledge in how to combine different methods, use complicated formulas, and such to execute it. Which I will talk more about whenever I say "Trial and Error".

    The learning I'm talking about is experience, and finding something new. Albert Einstein or other scientists/physicists didn't look at a book and say "I know everything now!" (looking at a book symbolizing learning Java and other programming languages), like I said before you don't need raw language, you need to know other factors as well. I'm not saying you try 12 things and keep on failing, I used Einstein and there's even a quote stating "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity". I guarantee you 100% that you used trial and error to fix your bugs, you look at the NPE or whatever and then you learn that you did it wrong, and how you will do it next time.

    Basically to sum that up is that humans find different things, and they can't do that flawlessly, whoever made neural networks or whatever, most probably was a developer, and they didn't automatically know everything, such has been the whole entire history of humanity, I'm not talking about something thousands of people have done before you, I'm talking about the learning of pioneering something that is very unique, and sharing it to the community... is how ya' do it.

    "In which I could introduce a NEW concept"

    Keep in mind that there are already moderators on the forums, and I said the players would make their job significantly easier considering who would just sort prefixes? That's just a gateway to allowing them more moderating actions that still have a definite boundary so they have no chance to abuse. The moderators already can just manage them.

    There are so many people here that are mature and have many messages (not post farming hence being "experienced"), as well as being on spigot for a while now.

    You said is it going to be beneficial? I already pointed out many cons to my idea making it less biased and more realistic, I even assumed the worst case scenario. After that I refuted that it would indeed make a difference, toppling the cons with the pros. I didn't highlight any costs, I just simply stated them all at once, then refuting them with a vague counter argument that can be applied to many cons.

    I said earlier, there are many volunteers, and on top of that I said these volunteers ARE ALREADY HELPING people meaning that the only thing they lack is permission and the actual rank which signifies authority and helpfulness. Those are the two things that will add, the helping part is something that is already happening, a constant variable.

    1. Spark new ideas for moderating other sections - Just sorting through threads and marking "Finished" or "Closed" probably won't be enough. The real "hassle" will be the bungeecord/plugin help section, whenever you go to these sections, there are barely any of them who have 0 replies. Meaning it will take close to no time to switch prefixes, considering they already devote time writing a constructed response to help players. So what I'm saying is that they could have more responsibilities if indeed that is not so bad of a task, or make them choose if they want to go a notch higher.

    2. Spigot will be a more friendly environment - More staff members and/or helpers will result in more watching over the community, thus decreasing people getting away with unaccepted behavior, this will not change the overall rules of the forums most probably, but just make it more efficient (this is, of course if idea #1 is implemented).

    If #1 was not implemented it could still be applied when organization takes part, more organization of prefixes means that you can find results easier, resulting in a place organized where there will be less duplicates of questions, and less rule-breakers who need to know an answer and resort to rule-breaky-stuff.

    I meant, in contrast to the plugin help sections, there are 1day-1week gaps between the posting of Hiring Developers thread, the ones that you see are always just being replied to. Even if you count the ones being replied to, only around 25% of them are actually actively seeking developers, or are active, meaning if someone says that they no longer need a service, then you could easily put up the prefix stating "Closed", because in contrast to the plugin help sections again, there are not many replies, and you just need to see the reply by the owner of the thread to know that it's closed.

    By that I mean questions you would regularly see questioning server networks, it's pretty vague, you can ask about the features, the Server IP, amongst other things, but I guess you could do that in a conversation so the topic doesn't get off-topic... in which locking... would probably work.

    A person who has been on the Spigot forums long enough and knows when something is solved can do this. There's also the deal of the person needing help replying to the "solver's" constructed response, you mostly don't see people getting their problem solved and just saying nothing (not replying) to the person who solved it. The small percentage of people who actually do that, that's why there's judgement on when a problem is solved or not.

    That's why I proposed earlier the "Finished" prefix, there's already a "Solved" prefix, so all you have to do is grant exclusive access to that for the volunteers, then make an "Unsolvable" prefix to reword the "Finished" prefix I said, so that someone only has to search up "Solved".
     
  10. md_5

    Administrator Developer

    In services, locked indicates closed.
     
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