Watch out for Shockbyte. Please.

Discussion in 'Hosting Advice' started by DropTheHood, Aug 7, 2018.

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  1. Hello SpigotMC Community. Today, I'd like to tell you all about my very frustrating experience with Shockbyte and why I will never use them again, and why I highly suggest you to keep yourself away from them.

    I used to run a hosting company called Snownode that resold of Shockbyte. I had sold this business a while ago, making sure Mitch was aware of this, which he was (Shockbyte's managing director). I'll more in depth with their reselling system. So, Shockbyte allows people who are interested in running a host that don't have much funds backing their interests to resell their products for around $0.50 more than what you purchase them for. At first, I was happy with what they did, although I had tons of issues with it and got to the point where I just wanted to sell the host. I purchase, say, 20GB off them which allows me to sell 20GB to my own customers and clients. So, when a buyer comes along, he purchases a server off me for $3/GB and I purchase it for $2.50/GB. That's basically how the reseller worked, although it was more automatic than what I'm explaining it to you now.

    I was selling nearly 25GB/mo which meant that my monthly bill to Shockbyte was close to $70.00 CAD which is a ton of money for me, taking into consideration that I couldn't afford to rent real dedicated servers to begin with. I was fairly fed up with their reseller system due to the countless issues and bugs, and the terrible support Shockbyte has. Mitch rarely responds to his DMs, so he leaves his staff to help out, yet none of them have the first clue what the reseller system is, so support was really lacking.

    So, each month, $70.00 CAD was sent to Mitch, obviously, a bit more coming into my own due to me reselling the products for a higher cost. Now, I had told Mitch that I was done with the reseller program and made sure he was aware that Snownode was no longer in my possession. Now, I had accidentally left my automatic payment on for the reseller, so when the time came, $70.00 CAD was transacted from my account to Shockbyte's.

    I had thought that Mitch was someone I could really talk to and count on. I've been a client of his for nearly a year (found him here actually as I was looking for a minecraft host). I considered Mitch a friend, but I was quick to think differently.

    I had asked Mitch for a refund as most people can't just lose $70 like that. I assumed that Mitch would understand this, but when I asked him for the refund, he didn't want to send the money back. For obvious reasons, I had opened up a PayPal dispute against Mitch as I could not afford to just lose $70 like that. Once I told his staff to go check out the dispute, I found that the reseller service that I had accidentally continued to rent was terminated, and I received absolutely no credit balance whatsoever. They said they will not help me unless I cancel the dispute, so that's what I did. I canceled the dispute and opened a ticket.

    The ticket was simply a request for my $70 back. Nothing more, nothing less. One of Shockbyte's staff replied saying that it states in their TOS that they don't need to refund anything if it's related to their reseller, so I was left with no credit balance, -$70 from my banking account, and a broken friendship with Mitch. I even told Mitch my situation in life and how that really set me off, but he could not care less if it's not about money. He even knew that I had gotten scammed $150.00 CAD from a website designer! He knew so much, but he doesn't care as he has become attached to the fact of money.

    So please, whatever you do, do not get involved with Shockbyte. They are, as far as I'm concerned, only worried about the money, and don't care about you and your situation unless you're a paying client. If you really want a good host, go check out Sparked Host.

    @Switchbladed I hope you can learn to treat people properly.

    I hope this helps those looking for hosts.

    Have a nice summer everyone,
    - @DropTheHood
     
    #1 DropTheHood, Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
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  2. For the part by not cancelling the automatic payment subscription it's actually YOUR fault. Most hosting providers are telling you to cancel the payment subscription in your paypal in order to prevent these issues.

    PS: I'm not defending one of the both parties
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Yeah, and I totally agree with you there. It's my fault by leaving it on. But I'm just warning others about them and how someone who you'd think is your friend can just quickly turn on you for the money. Also, I received no credit balance, and they terminated my service when making the PayPal dispute which is very low to do.

    And although it was my fault, it's still fairly scummy to not refund someone, who's struggling, their $70.00 back. You'd think it's 'common courtesy'.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. TL;DR

    If you forgot to cancel the PayPal payment its completely your fault, many hosts don't offer refunds for that, of course, its a bad situation but that's life, now you have learned something and you will never forget it again.
     
  5. Right, and I totally understand this.

    What bugs me though is how he didn't stick his hand out for me because he could be making $70 while I'm lying in the dirt. That's what pisses me off. I trusted the man. I really did. I thought he was a good friend. Also, I received absolutely no credit balance. It's not right to do what he did.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. So can you not reopen a dispute with PayPal?
     
  7. Well, I did, but PayPal themselves canceled it because my issue with Shockbyte doesn't fall into their buyer's protection.

    I've heard people saying that I should chargeback against them through my bank, but I'm not sure if I'm going to. Who knows.
     
  8. That's a really scummy thing in general. That's one of the reasons I decided to go the developer route, I don't have to worry about all the extra issues.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. "That's a really scummy thing in general." If I were to chargeback, or what are you referring to?
     
  10. Was referring to what the host did to you.
     
  11. Many companies don't offer refunds on automatic payments and I never understood why. I personally offer refunds if the customer isn't over 4 days into their billing month which I find reasonable. People tend to forget things and $70.00 isn't a small amount of money. I personally even find it a little unethical to not refund the payment. And going as far as putting it into your terms of service just shows you'd rather be going after the money than offering a decent service and customer experience.
     
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  12. Minecraft Reseller is a service we offer privately, by application only. We choose to not offer this publicly primarily due to the high number of hosts that shut down within a few months of opening. We use the application process to filter out the applicants who are unlikely to last beyond a few months. Prior to requiring applications, it worked similarly - we had discussed the details of the system spanning over 3 months with the OP and were already in contact several months before this. Both approaches to selecting resellers have been very effective. It is not the profitable decision for us to do this - it is the best for the end user.

    All businesses that are offered a place in our Minecraft Reseller program understand that this is very different to our regular services - it is a business arrangement and as such is also subject to it’s own terms. In particular, it is a service we cannot offer a refund for if the client simply changes their mind.

    Despite stating that refunds are not offered for Minecraft Reseller in our Terms of Service, we are very reasonable and in fact, have refunded $90.14 CAD across two other payments to the OP for their reseller service (we have also refunded an additional $18 CAD on top of this, however the $18 CAD was not for the Minecraft Reseller service).

    The payment in question was a $67.14 CAD payment paid manually by the OP for the renewal of their Minecraft Reseller service.

    This payment was not an automatic payment as the OP suggested. It was paid manually after they received a suspension notice for their payment being overdue. This is a clear indication that the OP did intentionally renew their service. The OP never submitted a cancellation request for the service.

    Here’s a timeline:

    22nd May 2018
    • Renewal date & payment due date.
    24th May 2018
    • The account was suspended due to non-payment. I’d also like to note that for a reseller account, this does not suspend the services of the end user - it only locks the reseller’s access to their account. This is to protect the end user in the case their host did not pay their bills. The decision to do this is at our expense.
    • After the OP (Snownode) received an email notice that the service was suspended, he logged in and completed a manual payment (we did not apply a late fee for the overdue payment).
    • Since the payment was made manually, it clearly indicates it was not an accident and the OP intended to renew the service.
    • Logs of the service suspension & payment: https://i.imgur.com/GDVEW2a.png
    • The PayPal transaction (take note of the payment type - not an automatic payment): https://i.imgur.com/6PCrd3A.png
      This is what it would have looked like it if it was an automatic payment: https://i.imgur.com/euEyKWH.png
    30th May 2018
    • At this point we had already provided 8 days of the service (since the 22nd) - more than 25% of the billing period.
    • The refund was requested via Discord (not via our support channels) in which the OP acknowledged that it was not our responsibility or necessary for us to refund him: https://i.imgur.com/j0isukB.png
    16th June 2018
    • The OP opens a dispute on the payment. This is fraud and it’s illegal.
    • Our system automatically suspended the account because the invoice is now marked as unpaid due to the dispute. The end users servers were not suspended so their services were protected by this (at Shockbyte’s expense).
    In our case, we refund automatic payments regardless of timing as long as the client indicated they wish to cancel the service prior to the payment. In the case of this thread, it was not an accidental payment or an automatic payment. It was an intentional payment, made manually for the renewal of the service. A refund was requested after 8 days (25%) of the billing period was already used.

    To protect the customers who purchased from the OP, we kept all of their services active to this date at our own expense. Only the OP's reseller account was locked (preventing new servers to be activated) when they disputed their payment, thus putting their account in debt. This type of action is not a pursuit of money.

    And not to turn this on you, but the Anvilnode terms of service states that you do not offer refunds for dedicated servers - this is exempt from your return policy. So by your own definition, does this show that "you'd rather be going after the money than offering a decent service and customer experience"? I'm not trying to pick fights - I understand why you do this and it is extremely common, so I'm sure you would understand why we do this as well.
     
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  13. I'd like to point some things out here.

    You mentioned this: '$90.14 CAD across two other payments to the OP' - This was because when you upgrade through the reseller, the old payment is still there which I wasn't aware of which is why you had to refund this. You never told me that that's how your reseller works, so I'd appreciate it if you don't make me look bad that way.

    And mate, I screwed up badly here. I'm not sure what had happened (whether it was an automatic payment or not), but you knew that I no longer had possession of Snownode. You knew for a fact, up until now, that I made one hell of a mistake paying you that $70. You know how badly I need that money. You even know the situation I'm in. For obvious reasons, I'm not sharing this to the Spigot community (or any community in general as it's really tough to talk about), but Jees - You'd think that after what I told you, you'd feel some sympathy and refund me.

    I asked you with the kindness of my heart for my money back. You even showed the message: https://i.imgur.com/j0isukB.png - For obvious reasons of waiting a month for you to reply, I got quite pissed off at you. I made a ticket that was ended up flagged for you yet you never responded! It was a month old so it automatically closed. That's not ethical at all man, and that shows that you care really only about those giving you a monthly paycheck.

    Like BeBosny pointed out, the fact that you have a no-refund policy in your TOS really does show that you're all about the money. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw you say 'It is not the profitable decision for us to do this - it is the best for the end user.'. If it's not a profitable decision for you to be offering a reseller program, then why on earth are you doing it? You, for sure, don't have the intentions of helping others.

    'To protect the customers who purchased from the OP, we kept all of their services active to this date at our own expense. Only the OP's reseller account was locked (preventing new servers to be activated) when they disputed their payment, thus putting their account in debt. This type of action is not a pursuit of money.' Is this why a past customer came to me, furious at hell, saying that they can't access their minecraft server? Don't think so.

    Now I'm not here asking for my money back. I tried doing so months ago and because I was talking to someone who has no respect for anyone except those handling his money, I had no luck. What I'm trying to tell you here is that the man you're paying for a server at Shockbyte is one hell of a scum. Look at the trouble he goes through to make sure he doesn't look bad. Whether I payed you automatically or not, you are still being extremely selfish and you've decided to keep that $70 that should be mine to yourself. For heaven's sake man - $70 is so much money. Yet you still try and defend yourself here. You're probably the most selfish human being I've ever spent a minute talking to. You've gotten so caught up with yourself that you forget to realize how much $70 is to some people here on this earth. I was going to use the money that you won't refund by helping out my friend who used to run Hostable, a web hosting company that was planning on donating 75% of their profit to Compassion Canada so that Africans could have access to more clean water, but Hostable died out because my friend couldn't back the funds up. I wonder sometimes what a difference he and I (if I was able to help him out) could have made, but I guess that dream will never come true because much of my money is in a greedy man's back pocket.

    I really hope that people understand who this man really is and what he stands for, and what he doesn't, because someone like this should not be offering anything to anyone.

    Like the title reads, stay the hell away from him and his company.
     
    #13 DropTheHood, Aug 8, 2018 at 5:55 AM
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018 at 6:13 AM
  14. I personally think a partial refund at least should’ve been given, if Mitch knew that Snownode wasn’t even owned by him anymore, then why would he pay. Could be an error on PayPal’s fault displaying it as a regular payment or something.
     
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  15. He didn't even give me credit balance, too. Crazy.
     
  16. In good faith, maybe he could have done that. But considering the fact that @DropTheHood intentionally opened a dispute, I don't think that's in the picture anymore.

    However, no matter how you look at it, it is clear that this whole dilemma was caused by OP.
    • He made the conscious decision to pay for the reseller service he had with them...manually.
    • He is well aware or at least expected to be aware of Shockbyte's terms but he still decided to pay.
    • He clearly states in the screenshot (https://i.imgur.com/j0isukB.png) that he is aware of the possibility that he might not get a refund because it's his own fault.
    • He also clearly states in said screenshot that he is broke and in need of money so his new hosting business doesn't plummet...but he still decided to pay for his reseller service.
    Any decisions OP made was his and it is not fair that he's calling out @Switchbladed for being selfish when it's OP who was being irresponsible and made poor decisions.

    That just doesn't make sense. If the business (Hostable) was in rough financial standing, why would you/your friend plan to donate 70% of profits to charity instead of putting it towards sustaining the business? That could have been something to do when the business was already financially stable, but this early? To me, that just sounds like a scummy tactic to look good as in "having the intention of putting the money to business with a positive cause if you got it back" just to get people on your side.
     
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  17. This is a very very interesting situation to be put into. First of all, you sold SnowNode before the payment went through Paypal, and it just seems interesting that it was suspended for no payment, but then a few days later a payment went through, if I am not mistaken, if a payment is not received and the account/server(s) are suspended an automatic payment wouldn't happen days later out of the blue. You did receive partial refunds which were nice of them, to begin with- although the fact of the matter is you failed to turn off automatic payments, which is obviously on you. However, I think, in this case, mistakes were made and a refund would be nice for your case. I fully agree with @bebosny, the ethical thing would be to refund you for the full amount(s). And I know that good hosts would do the same thing because if it's a mess-up like what happened here, it should really be refunded.

    (If it isn't clear, I am neither defending nor attacking anyone in this post. I don't want to get involved, I am telling my personal opinion, and I agree with other people on this post, he did make a major error when it comes to many things, but if it is an honest mistake like said, then give the man a refund, but if it was an intentional payment, why give him a refund. And yes, I slightly agree with others here, the donating seems like something to get the money and something to look better, but if it is genuinely to help and not to look better, you're helping the world and we thank you. But you know, that's my opinion.)
     
    #17 lolzcjtekid11, Aug 8, 2018 at 7:25 AM
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018 at 7:36 AM
  18. 70% profit. Profit is what you make after costs have been paid. And I find that quite disturbing how you'd accuse me of not really wanting to give back to those in need but doing it for a business tactic. I'm on my phone, but people suffer under such harsh conditions where clean water isn't accessible. I suggest, same with Mitch, to think about others and try catering for their needs before your own. Very selfish of you to say I don't really want to help others while you do nothing to benefit others.

    Also, I looked at my PayPal and it appears that I did send it manually. Not sure why, but the fact that the company was no longer mine must say something on how that payment was a mistake.
     
  19. - Just an update to my previous post- again
    Again, if you didn't send it, and it wasn't you who did this, then it was a mistake? But like if you sent it, and you didn't mean to / it was a mistake, and a real mistake, not some "WHooops sent payment" then yes, refund. But like this seems way above me to comment on, this is my last post, don't involve me any more than what I am currently.

    Thanks :)
     
  20. And @Switchbladed says that he does what benefits the client, although it's not a good financial choice to offer reselling. Well, I stumbled across a message of him saying that there is no point in selling at a low cost per GB as you'd be making little profit. Well, if that's the case, why are you offering reselling?

    Who cares if you want to make $1,000,000? Nobody appreciates you more because of this. You need to change your mentality man.

    You clearly are all about the money, and there is absolutely NO doubt about it.

    View attached file below, please.
     

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